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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 53
Over the Christmas break I built a PBK20 rigid canvas and timber kayak. Unfortunately prior to completion I tore the canvas on my garage door. I have now repaired this with Stormsure which is very tough indeed. It also sticks like a terrier to a rabbit and bonds resolutely to the skin. I tried to remove it with Industrial wet wipes, white spirit and swarfega, none of which worked. Methylated spirits (wood alcohol, Stateside) sort of worked. Nearly two weeks later I am still to finish removing all the stormsure that got under my finger nails. This is exceptionally tough stuff. Use the gloves supplied. Please.

Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:11 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Thanks for the heads up!

Is it a rubbery compound that you spread on the effected fabric? Looked it up on Amazon, and people are saying they used it to fix their wellies.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:53 pm 
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It is rather like a silicone sealant but stickier and slightly gummier and it will repair almost anything flexible and waterproof. I patched up some leaking walking boots with it after getting wet feet. It worked a treat. I need new boots but it does for now. It really sticks. I mean really. The adhesion almost redefines tenacity. I can not make any claims for its longevity having only just used it but at present I have no qualms about it at all. It is sold in tubes like toothpaste. I used a 90gm tube on the hull seams. It will not keep once opened unless you freeze it. I keep mine in the freezer and have to defrost it when I want it. Stormsure is not cheap but cheaper than a new hull skin. I should add that I am a jobbing chippy (self employed carpenter) and have no connection at all to the manufacturer and I have not been asked to recommend this. Just don't get it on your skin. It won't burn you but but neither will it bid you adieu. Stormsure also make self adhesive emergency repair patches some of which I have for emergency use. I can make no claims for these as I have yet to use them. I have also used McNett seam grip whilst constructing my PBK20 but this is less viscose and does not grab so well. I am sure that it works as a seam sealer on tents and garments but I am not so keen on it for my kayak and I do not believe that it will effect a repair without a fabric patch as Stormsure will.

Malcolm Tierney


Last edited by MalcolmT on Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:57 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Very useful to know.

And you had seemed very mechanically/chemically adept, so it's nice and interesting to hear the job tie-in.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:20 pm 
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Dear All,
I can report that the last time I looked the silicone with added aluminium powder was still watertight but that the silicone applied over fabric paint had failed comprehensively. All is not lost though. I have examined the failed skin and it appears that I may not have applied a continuous coat to the sample so another shall be prepared and tested when sufficient canvas arrives by post. Meanwhile a tin of Gummipaint has arrived in pillar box red. This is intended for Hypalon but the nearest colour of Gummipaint to a Tyne kayak's silver hull is grey. This paint will have to await a failure to liberate a frame and bucket for another test. If your kayak is not a Tyne then this will be immaterial.
Could anyone recommend a source of p.v.c. keel strips at 5m long that would not reduce my electronic bank manager to binary tears?

Anon,
Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
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Dear All,
I have now started testing Veneziani Gummipaint. This is a Hypalon paint of Italian manufacture and is considerably more viscose that the last one that I tried. After two coats a few pin holes were still visible when held up to the light but after three all seemed well so an initial test was carried out by scrunching the sample into a colander and filling it with Adam's ale. Not a drop was spilled so the sample has been stapled to a frame and immersed. Hypalon paint is intended for the re-finishing of rigid inflatable boats and so is definitely suitable for a marine environment. It remains to be seen whether it will adequately waterproof canvas. The canvas remained flexible after painting although stiffer than before. The paint did not seem to protest as I folded the sample onto its cubic frame.

I have a pair of very aged waterproof over-trousers which have sprung a rather embaressingly situated leak. I have just discovered waterproof iron on seam tape and have ordered a roll to repair my trousers but whilst I am at it it would seem a good idea to test a length on a sample of fabric and give it an immersion test as a repair method. I await delivery.
I am sure that duck tape is the way to go for a quick and dirty repair when on voyage but more permanent repairs could do with some evaluation too.

Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
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Dear All,
One week and four days on Veneziani Gummipaint remains watertight. Hurrah. This seems promising.

Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:48 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Thank you Malcolm. Glad to hear that things are progressing.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 53
Dear All,
There are four skin samples that have proven successful so far:-
1. Silicone on cotton canvas
2. Silicone with aluminium powder on cotton canvas
3. Veneziani Gummipaint (3 coats) on cotton canvas
4. Unmodified polyurethane backed canvas

All these sample have been:-

Removed from their frames.
The frames and samples dried
The skins then opened out and folded 20 times
Skins reattached to their frames.
Re-immersed in buckets of salt water with a dash of laundry detergent.

The real world in which our kayaks navigate is not as kind as the crystal clear River Cray water that the samples were previously in.

The two cotton canvas samples had started to develop mould whichis forgivable as they had been submerged for months in cold water outside under a tarpaulin. We would not treat our canoes / kayaks this way. Would we?

If and when failures occur they shall be noted here.

Regards,
Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:28 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Thanks very much, Malcolm. With folding kayak manufacturers going out of business left and right, your research is going to be all the more important to all of us.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 53
Further to the ongoing tests.
When folded the samples showed no signs of distress from the folding and opening process. The folds were made in thirds horizontally then thirds vertically in addition and finally a fold in half horizontally.

Whilst working recently for a fashion designer I saw that he had some fabric samples laid out for design work and some of these had a plastic coating in parts. This I was informed was Framis, a plastic coating for fabrics that is heat applied and is the same as that used for seam tape. Framis is usually applied in a hot press but can also be applied with a smoothing iron. It is available in a range of colours. My client also informed me that Framis is completely waterproof.

Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
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Dear All,
no news is good news.
All the samples on test have so far withstood a fortnight of immersion in salt water with added detergent.
Not a drop spilled.
Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 53
Dear All,
When using Veneziani Gummipaint, brushes should be cleaned out with either acetone or Veneziani 6380 thinner. Do not thin the paint for application. Gummipaint and thinner are available together as a package from an eBay trader.

Malcolm Tierney


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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:46 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 820
Location: atlanta, georgia
Malcolm,

Great work, thanks for advancing the body of knowledge in our sometimes obscure world. I would hate to see this lost in the Forum. Michael, if you think it appropriate, might the specific posts related to materials and compounds be added to your sticky's?

Best,
g

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1990's A1 Expedition
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 Post subject: Re: Skin Repairs
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:15 pm
Posts: 53
I must confess that the above leaves me non-plussed. What are sticky's? Was Michael a typographical error or someone else?


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