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 Post subject: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:16 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Chicago
Do I have to use Hypalon on my Klepper Hypalon hull? What about PVC? Would that work? Are there other alternatives to Hypalon? I ask because I don't want to spend a lot of money to buy a keel strip from Long Haul--my hull is too old to sink a lot of money into it. I also checked ebay and could find only small pieces of hypalon for sale. I'm trying to figure out if there might be any alternatives.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:34 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Yes, most people would use PVC instead of Hypalon. Even if you got the keelstrip, attaching it to the hull would be much more difficult than you probably anticipate.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:49 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Chicago
How would I attach PVC to Hypalon? What would I use? I have some neoprene adhesive i got from Long Hall many years ago--a kind of contact cement, I believe.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:55 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
I'm sorry I was unclear. You are right-- Hypalon on Hypalon. If you make a new hull, it would probably be from PVC.

My understanding is that Hypalon is out of production, but the basic material is still available under it's non-trademarked name... which I've forgotten. If you look back a year or two through "kayak repair" and maybe "kayak building", you should find it. I think it may be marketed mainly as a roofing material, if I remember correctly.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:14 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 820
Location: atlanta, georgia
If you google "hypalon for sale" you will find plenty of the fabric, even ready-made strips that would work for seams and keel strips. I found a 12' x 6' piece a few years back that I use as a tarp and as a slide when I launch or haul my kayak up river banks. The fabric is just about indestructable. I don't really get how it can still be sold unless everything available is old stock. DuPont quit making it several years ago due to environmental concerns in the manufacturing process. There is a Japanese company that makes a similar product, but it is not called Hypalon.

g

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"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
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Balogh sail rig, 24 + 36 HP
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:37 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
I dunno... I don't use my Klepper so hard, and I've put a hole or two in the Hypalon. The PVC on the two pakboats I had stood up at least as well.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:52 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 820
Location: atlanta, georgia
Yep, the sheet of hypalon I found online is different than the hypalon my hull is made of. It is thicker and stiffer, and you can actually see a "weaving" pattern of whatever material is sandwiched in the middle. I think it is roofing material.

g

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"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
Kayaksailer
Balogh sail rig, 24 + 36 HP
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:06 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Long Haul is using something-- seem to have sourced an equivalent of the old Hypalon.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:26 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm
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Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:19 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Oakland, California
Check with NRS, they sell Penell Orca tape. Penell Orca is CSM synthetic rubber. Hypalon was Du Pont's trademarked CSM product.
While Hypalon is no longer made, the equivalent CSM synthetic rubber products are available from Penell, Mauritzon, Achilles and others.

You might be able to get PVC to stick to your Klepper hull with Aquaseal, or an equivalent Urethane flexible adhesive.

Chris O

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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:47 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Germany
http://www.orca.eu/uk/niv2-colors-and-textures-15.php

ORCA is the tradename of "Penel & Flipo" for their CSM and is produced in different colors and thicknesses. Very nicely suited for GESA an F√úRST folding boats in orange colour. The red or blue CSM ist very good for historical folding boats until 2. WW (Pionier, Klepper, Berger etc.).

Are you sure that your Aerius has a Hypalon/CSM lower boat or is it natural rubber ("Silberhaut")? The rubber cement no longer holds an old natural rubber...

R.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:56 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Chicago
Thanks for the suggestion. The hull is almost certainly Hypalon. It's actually in okay shape, except for a failing seam, some nicks and cuts--and some very small areas of delamination--the size of a quarter at most--along the keel line where the hull was stored folded, I suppose. I was thinking of gluing a narrow strip there to cover and reinforce, maybe only a few inches wide.


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 Post subject: Re: Keel strip material?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:37 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:47 pm
Posts: 81
Hello folks,
Last spring I was faced with deciding what to do with the badly worn bottom of my 80's-era Aerius 2. I spotted some heavy, very slightly ribbed black rubber mats, Chinese-made, for sale at Rona's (Canada). Cheap. The kind of rubber mats used for workshop floors. I cut 10-inch wide strips out of one 5'x4' mat to cover the centre keel line. I prepared the hull with light sanding and acetone to clean. I think I used Lepage contact cement, a large can was ample. I used marine goop in the 5-6 mm. spaces between the strips as the strips were only 5' long, hence I had to cut 3 strips to reach end-to-end. I gave the strips several days to cure. I used grey Silaflex Concrete repair, applies like caulking, on weak and worn areas adjacent to the main repair. The results: a weight gain of at least six pounds to the hull. Ugly black keel strip on grey hypalon hull, but out of sight below the waterline. Extremely heavy-duty. Miraculously, a solid adhesion of cheap black rubber to the hull. Watertight during and after a one-week trip in the bouldery 30 Thousand Islands of Georgian Bay, Ontario. I suspect folding the hull for in-car transport would be hindered by the stiffness of the new keel line, but I avoid dismantling and re-assembling, preferring to store and transport the boat assembled. Conclusion: a cost-effective way to prolong the life of an excessively- worn hull. Sorry, no pics, as I've not subscribed to external photo sites.


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