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Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450
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Author:  ParaBog [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

I bought an old (maybe 1950's or 1960's) Pioneer single. It is 4.5 meters long, so I'm assuming it is a 450, but I don't know if it is an S or WA model.

It seems to be missing the 4th Frame, and it would be a "C" shaped frame, since it would be in the middle of the cockpit. I'm assuming that it also holds up the cockpit coming, as there is a pair of holes there.

Can anyone send me an outline or a template for that frame, and a photo or two, so that I can see what fittings there are to connect to the rest of the frame.

Thanks!
Pioneer 450....x
Klepper Aerius II, exp. w/sails
Folbot 13
Pacboat Puffin
Lotsa hardshells too!

Author:  RainerM [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Pionier 450 Wa !

Here you can get same information:

http://www.faltbootbasteln.de/fbb-pioni ... einer.html
http://typen.faltboot.org/f2103_var.php?ID=937
http://typen.faltboot.org/f0106_anz_bil ... =450&h=600
http://typen.faltboot.org/f0105_anz_alb ... d=51&pos=0
(click on "weiter" to see all rips).

R.

Author:  ParaBog [ Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Thanks, those sites are a great help.
I'm noticing a difference in my frame from the ones in the pictures, in how frames 3 and 5 are connected to the deck beams. The website shows a bolt and wing-nut connection, while mine has a wire spring. See attached photo.

Does that help in figuring out how old my Pioneer is?

Thanks.

Author:  ParaBog [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Can someone please measure their Pioneer 450Wa (yes, it is a Wa) frame, and tell me the dimensions "A" through "E" from the attached picture?

Thanks!

Pioneer 450Wa
Klepper Aerius II, exp. w/sails
Folbot 13
Pacboat Puffin
Lotsa hardshells too!

Author:  RainerM [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

No problem, give me a couple of days, so that I can seek out my 450Wa...

...please notice: the name of the factory was "Pionier" not "Pioneer"

R.

Author:  ParaBog [ Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Fantastic!
I'll remember to spell Pionier correctly!
Thanks!

Author:  RainerM [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Here are the dimensions "A" through "F" in metric units...
And please note: 1/4" wing-nut is original!
[BSW (British Standard Whitworth)]

R.

Author:  ParaBog [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Super!
Thanks so much for the quick response.
Yes, I noted the 1/4-20 and was surprised that Pionier didn't use metric bolts. 1/4-20 is certainly the most common bolt size out there, with camera sockets, etc., but I don't know how common BSW was in other uses, like boats.
Thanks again!!!

Author:  RainerM [ Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Pionier used first (1925- ~1956) 3/16 wing-nuts and bolts.

The manufacturers "Fürst", "Gesa" and "Standard-Sportwerkstätten, Leo Kitzmüller" (all Vienna/Austria) also use 3/16 bolt and wing nuts.
Other manufactures (in the prewar time), I don't know...

R.

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