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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 4:51 pm 
Hi. I have been wanting a kayak for years, but have no place to put one, then a six months ago I discovered folding kayaks and really want to get one. I am a graduate student and have a family, so money is a huge issue, but I plan on having this kayak for a long time, so durability is very important as well. I am thinking I would like to get a used double, probably a Greenland II. All of the forums I've read suggest that there were various issues before, but most that they have been fixed in newer models. Were these changes gradual or was there one year when the design was totally overhauled. What year? It seems like the few I have seen are 5-7 years old, so 2001-2003. How big of a difference is it? Is it worth it to get a new one?

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
The changes were gradual. I owned a 1996 model which I upgraded as time went on. Sold it in 2001, I think. Any boat after about 1994 or 1995 should be a good craft, if it has not been abused. Abuse usually takes the form of overloading the frame and results in popped rivets. Or, dragging the hull over sharp objects. Both are fixable, but probably not worth it unless you get help and are good with tools.

The two major upgrades are substitution of aluminum washboards for the plastic ones (2000), and phaseout of the older filled polycarbonate frames for tubular aluminum ones (2003 or 2004?). The first one is worth having; the second, not so much. Aluminum frames are better and lighter, but in a G II, they do not make as much difference as in the singles from Folbot. Aluminum washboards strengthen and stiffen the boat.

We paddled the slats off our G II on the coast of BC and on the Columbia River, and loved it. If you check the mods section of this site, you will see I made a custom spraydeck, which was useful for offshore travel and in rough conditions. Supposedly, the newest spraydeck is much better than the old ones. I have not seen one. Unless you paddle very rough water, loaded, I do not think you need one.

Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1835
Location: Southeast Michigan
I would just add to what Dave says that you can always add the new mods later on. I had an older G-II that worked just fine without the newer washboards and ribs.

One other difference is the newer rudder system, which is a big improvement, but again, there are mods you can do to improve the older system, or you can buy new parts later on. And I think we'd agree that the rudder isn't really needed unless you (1) intend to sail the boat (2) paddle in strong winds or (3) paddle with a really uncoordinated partner ;-)

Michael Edelman Webmaster

PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:08 pm 
mje wrote:
I would just add to what Dave says that you can always add the new mods later on.

The guy needs to know his bottom-line, I guess. All those little tings cost something. Very old boat might seem a bargain at $700 or 800, but consider all that you'll add if you're going to keep it for another 15-20 years. You might need more parts when you inspect it carefully at home after the purchase - may be washboards, may be seats, may be some damaged ribs, may be rudder or rudder parts. Not as risky as buying an old car, but still... Folbot parts are not terribly expensive, though. Watch particularly for skin condition. Patches are less dangerous than very old, cracked and peeling off skin. Too many abrasions between the protection strips (or along the keel and stringers if there are no strips at all) is a bad news too. New skin will cost more than you'll pay for an old GII.

OTH, sometimes people throw in cheap some useful items with a used boat - in my experience, just sometimes, not very often. If it's a freebie or cheap, then it's either low-end (super-heavy paddles etc), or in a very bad shape. Decent gear people sell separately on Ebay or Craigs, - or keep it, because they still have other boat(s).

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