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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:21 pm
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Can anyone with knowledge of the Folbot Upwind Sail Kit tell me the function of the pictured tee-shaped part, and where it goes?

I bought the sail kit from a member and brought it out to Montenegro to mate with my poly-framed Greenland II. Somehow, I misplaced the instructions! However, assembly was obvious except for this part. I drilled Frame #2 for the lower mast locating bracket (also pictured), but could find no obvious place for this other component.

It was suggested to me that it engages with the lower mast bracket for stability and reinforcement, but although the the protruding stem is similar in size to the squarish notch on the lower bracket, it is just too large to engage with it. (See photograph) The length of the screws and locking nuts would be correct for attachment to the bottom frame plate, so I suppose it may support the mast, but there are no witness marks present from the bottom of the mast to indicate this was the case. Puzzled.


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Folbots: Greenland, Aluet, Cooper
Kleppers: Passat and Master
Inflatables: Coleman and Intex
Rigid: Mirror dinghy and Chrysler 23


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:06 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 158
The Delrin piece is part of the rudder control system on boats with the Delrin T-bar foot control and plastic crossribs. Up until about 1999 the Folbot rudder was controlled with sliding pedals rather than a T-bar.

I have not used this short-legged "T" with my GIIs but find it necessary for the Aleut and Yukon when using the T-bar foot control. Foot pressure on the T-bar can push the bottom of the crossrib forward, past the locking tab. Then the two brass pegs come out of their slots.

The short-legged T is a workaround to prevent this from happening. It is mounted, short leg up, through the plastic deck plate that has the slots. You may need to drill two holes. The short leg fits into the notch in the delrin ring pictured in your post. If the leg does not fit into the notch, enlarge the notch a bit with a file. The short leg then prevents the crossrib from moving forward.

Once the short-legged T is installed, the delrin ring must be removed to disassemble the boat. To accommodate folding a keelson that has a short-legged T installed, Folbot drilled a hole in the opposing deck plate. At least they did on the Yukon and Aleut. I'm not sure on the GII.

(Terminology for many of these boat parts is not standard as far as I can tell. I have read other posts that refer to the bottom frame sections as keelsons.)

I have not seen any factory workaround for boats with aluminum crossribs, which were introduced around 2003. My workaround is here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6529

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:21 pm
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Thank you for your very clear explanation. It all makes sense now.
If I only use the lower delrin round bracket to locate the foot of the mast and not for steering, is it still advisable to use this strengthening component?
One more question, if you have time. Is there any reason why I cannot add a jib to this upwind kit? For instance, would it add too much stress to the brackets holding the unstayed mast?

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Folbots: Greenland, Aluet, Cooper
Kleppers: Passat and Master
Inflatables: Coleman and Intex
Rigid: Mirror dinghy and Chrysler 23


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:08 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 158
I own a couple of Folbot sail rigs (of the vintage that used the "banana" pontoons (which are called amas) that came with second-hand boats. I haven't really used them, though. I use the better-performing aftermarket Balogh sail rig. Someone who uses the Folbot sail rig might better advise you. I use the Delrin ring only to support the small "mast" on which the T-bar is installed. I do not use it to support a mast for a sail.

What I can say is that when close-hauled in a stiff breeze the Balogh mast can exert a strong downward pressure on the keelson. With the newer boats equipped with aluminum crossribs, I have known that pressure to regularly pull the lower crossrib bracket (no pegs with newer boats, only a less-secure bracket in the slot) straight up through the slot. I have not experienced this much with plastic-ribbed boats.

I sometimes run a jib with my Balogh rig, especially in light air. I must always remember that the mast has no standing rigging to absorb the stress created by the wind. Both Folbot and Balogh masts are designed to bend in response to that stress, but there is a limit. I am always prepared to change course or spill wind to relieve the pressure on the mast during gusts. Of course a consistently strong wind calls for reefing the sail.

I have sailed with others who use Folbot sail rigs and have seen the mast bend quite a bit without breaking the tube or the mounting. Once again, though, you are better advised by someone who uses that rig.

Balogh sails reef with zippers and thus do not affect and are not affected by the jib halyard. Folbot rigs of the vintage I own reef by rotating the mast to furl the sail. Were I to run a jib on a Folbot sail rig I would want to be sure that rotating the mast would not foul the jib halyard. Worse would be if the jib halyard prevented reefing. I would not want to sail without the ability to reduce canvas should wind velocity increase.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:21 pm
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Thank you again for your comprehensive answer.

I am so used to sailing boats with much more canvas than the postage stamp sail with the Folbot rig, that it is hard to imagine having to reef it, or it bending what appears to be a substantial mast.

Unfortunately, storms are forecast for the rest of this week here in Kotor, and since we return to the States next Tuesday, I will have to wait until next year before I can try it. I hope when I return, I will also have at least one of my Klepper sailing dinghies here too.
In the meantime, following your observations, I will fit the Delrin support bracket and file the ring notch to fit.
Thanks again for all your help. Jack

PS: If the upload works, here is a very low resolution view from the roof of our guest house here in Kotor. The five-master shown is a regular visitor. I may have to sneak past it early morning in my Folbot to avoid derisive comments!


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Folbots: Greenland, Aluet, Cooper
Kleppers: Passat and Master
Inflatables: Coleman and Intex
Rigid: Mirror dinghy and Chrysler 23


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:16 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 158
You are quite welcome, Jack. A handful of us gather four times annually (Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, and Maine) to sail and paddle kayaks. You would encounter quite a bit of kayak sailing experience at these gatherings. The Florida event is at the end of January. More information on that event can be found in Special Events. If you have any interest in any of the other three, send me pm and I will connect you with the organizers.

Kotor looks to be an awesome place to put a boat on the water!

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Folbots: Too many. It's embarrassing.
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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