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 Post subject: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:57 am 
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Well, on Thursday I received a T9 frame I bought on the German Ebay. My plan now is to restore the frame and find a new skin. I already own an AEII, which I have ended up paddling solo most of the time, so I decided to buy a single kayak. I have never paddled a T9 before, let alone seen one! So my first request to you wise people is to help me identify the kayak correctly. Is this really a T9? It may seem like a silly question but now that I have to find a new skin, I need to be sure that I have identified the kayak correctly! The seller inherited the kayak and had little knowledge of the subject.

Some pictures here:
http://lapalida.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/my-new-old-klepper.html

I have further questions. The right T-fitting that holds the backrest seems to be twisted (see pics above). Do you recommend replacing this? I cannot see any cracks or other obvious signs of damage. The backrest can be attached properly with no problems.

In some pictures of other T9's I have noticed a little metal piece at the pointed end of the coaming, something like a hook(?) that keeps the two sides of the coaming together just above of metal horns on rib 3. This little hook-like piece seems to be missing from my coaming (see pics). Is this piece important? Suggestions on where to find it or how to improvise a repair?

In general the frame seems to be in fair condition. All the metal fittings seem to be really fine, except for the metal hinges on the stern piece, they are a bit corroded at the base, but feel solid and with no play. Any ideas how to deal with metal rot?

The seat seems strange (see pics). There are four holes near the corners that I'm not sure what they are for. There is a metal clip at the front of the seat to attach it to the floorboard, but there are no other clips. The seat rocks from left to right at the back, and my feeling is that it would break while paddling if I try to use it. The seats on the new AEII are very different.

The rudder is also quite different from that on the AEII (see pics). There is a chance that the seller sent the wrong rudder, as the one I received in the box was different to the one shown on the Ebay listing. There is no whole in the rudder to attach a string to lift/drop the rudder into the water. There is also a cilindrical extension with a hole on the rudder bracket that would seem useful to hold a flag?

My plan now is to sand down all the wood pieces, then apply marine varnish. Any suggestions on sanding (like sand grain) and type of varnish (brand) to use for best results? I also want to polish all the metal fittings to make them look shiny!

Best,
Mario.

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Klepper AEII (ca. 2007)
Klepper T9 (Heise skin)


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:40 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 430
Mario,
Others will no doubt be able to recommend you more on the sanding and varnishing side. Regarding skinning the boat, are you hoping to buy a new skin or planning to make your own? (I would be surprised if you can find a skin second hand.)

The missing clip on the coaming is probably not vital. I have occasionally forgotten to clip it on on my T9 and I don't think it has made any difference. The twisted seat mount again probably doesn't matter too much right up to the moment when it breaks. You might want to pick up a spare one to carry against that day. Your seat looks similar to mine, but I don't recall those four holes. (I'd have to go and check.) Perhaps someone screwed something to it at some point to make it more comfortable or for some other reason?

I don't have an original rudder so I can't comment on that.

There are others on here with T9s who may be able to comment. Looking forward to hearing your experiences.
All the best,
Ian


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:31 am 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
Hello Mario,

Heading out to paddle my T9 shortly so I'll be a bit brief now.

- Yes, a T9
- The frame looks to be in very good shape. I would just sand it lightly and then apply a top-quality marine varnish
- I would not polish the metal bits, but of course this is your call. The aluminum bits will not remain shiny and the already have a patina. The chromed bits are probably as shiny as they'l ever be. Again, its your boat, do what makes you happy.
- The little aluminum connector at the front of the coaming is, in my experience, completely unnecessary
- Don't have a rudder for mine, so can't comment.
- Some of the metals bits can still be had from Klepper, others, you'll need to scrounge for.

Enjoy your T9, it is a fabulous kayak, my absolute favorite. I only wish it was a little larger (I'm 6'2" and 215 lbs).

You can get a new skin from Markus Heise (my recommendation) or Wayland. I may get a new skin for my T9 to replace the Wayland skin I got several years ago, which is very functional but getting ratty. My boat came with the original Klepper skin, but I never used it when I got it and and is now too far gone.

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Blackhawk Combi Canoe 15' 8"
CLC Chesapeake 16'
Klepper Aerius 2
Klepper T9 / Heise Skin
Pionier 520-Z / Heise Skin
Pouch E65


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:36 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1387
Location: South Salem, NY
Hi Mario,

I have the clip at the front of the coaming and the last time I assembled the boat I wasn't able to clip it because I didn't straighten it out before assembly... When I have successfully used the clip it is often 'unclipped' by the end of my paddle.

My T9 has a cushion that someone had glued to the seat. I'm guessing somebody tried doing something similar on your boat to make the seat a little more comfortable.

On the rudder, the black cross bar is the same design as mine but mine is aluminum gray/silver. The rudder I have is very similar to the rudder of an AEII, but, I received a 'rough' AEII with my T9 and it's entirely possible I have an AEII rudder assembly. The rudder looks like it should work fine. You could drill a hole through it for lifting. You will want to have a D ring or similar sewn into the hull along the side of the cockpit to connect this rudder lift line to. Just make sure that the rudder assembly fits the stern piece of your boat.

Did you get rudder peddles with the boat?

Don't worry about the T fitting. But have a replacement standing by. I have used a Long Haul comfort seat in my T9 which allows you to slide back just a little more in the cockpit.

d

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Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:59 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1387
Location: South Salem, NY
I was just looking at Markus Heise's site and saw the original T9 rudder and foot pedal arrangement that I have in one of his slides.

It's slide number 39 and is a beautiful T9 with a light green hull. The rudder and pedals are on the floor - right side of picture.

Click on the pic with the D ring and it will start the slide show. http://www.heise-faltboote.de/dia.html

d

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Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Germany
DLee wrote:
I was just looking at Markus Heise's site and saw the original T9 rudder and foot pedal arrangement that I have in one of his slides.


The rudder in your picture was produced by Klepper from 1936 to 1952 (1953?) for all typs. You can use it with a T9.

Best regards
Rainer


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:00 am
Posts: 12
Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for all the replies. I had a new skin made by Markus Heise. Beautiful expedition skin with TPU hull, rear hatch and safety lines. It fits perfectly. Markus made an amazing job. He also made a couple of carrier bags which I did not have, an extra handy side bag that attaches to the inside of the boat in the cockpit, repair kit, and he also trew in replacement plastic rod holders and the hook piece for the tip of the coaming. I've got it all about a month ago and I have already done a couple outings on the river Thames here in London.

I have been paddling an AEII solo for quite awhile. The T9 is definitely faster, but it feels way tippier and seems to spin very easily. The AEII on the other hand has solid tracking. On my second outing with the T9 I felt I was getting the knack of it better. Here is a pic:

Attachment:
T9-small.jpg


Where can I get some replacement T-fittings? I can get them from the Klepper website but they seem expensive. I would also like recommendations on wood fillers as there are a few bits of wood missing and holes (not important) that I would like to fill in. Finally, I'm finding removing the front side of the frame from the skin during deassembly quite difficult. There is a lot of friction between the frame and the skin and invariably I am having to ask somebody to help by holding the front of the kayak while I pull the frame out. Are there any tricks to make this process easier?

Cheers,
Mario.


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Klepper AEII (ca. 2007)
Klepper T9 (Heise skin)


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:20 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
Hello Mario,

Wow, she's a beaut! My T-9 has the same color combination, so when I first glanced at your pic, I thought: "hey, that's my boat!". But a closer inspection of the details shows that your boat has a skin by Heise, so much nicer than the Wayland skin on my boat. It motivates me to get a new skin for my T-9 from Heise sooner, rather than later.

Yes, the T-9 will turn easily, but I find that if I lean back a bit it tracks very well. I weigh about 220 lbs, so that may help with weight distribution. As Tsunami Chuck mentioned a while back, one could add some weight behind the seat to see how that helps with tracking.

I just ordered some t-fittings from Longhaul, nice bits, but they were pretty expensive, guess it comes down to supply and demand.

Hope you enjoy your T-9, mine is the best kayak I've ever paddled.

Cheers,

Barry

_________________
Blackhawk Combi Canoe 15' 8"
CLC Chesapeake 16'
Klepper Aerius 2
Klepper T9 / Heise Skin
Pionier 520-Z / Heise Skin
Pouch E65


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:32 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 430
Getting the frame out of the skin. I remember finding that really tricky too. In the absence of someone to hold it while I pulled I used to tie it to a tree and tug. I don't think this did the old skin much good. I then discovered that by holding the bow or stern in two hands and 'wiggling' the skin off the frame a little, it freed it up enough to allow one to pull the frame out much more easily. That's how I do it these days. I hope that description makes sense.

My T9 is my favourite kayak to paddle. Keeping it straight seemed a challenge at first, but persevere and you get used to it. Not paddling too hard helps. After all, once it is up to 'hull speed' it doesn't require much effort to keep it there and paddling harder doesn't increase the speed much but does tend to make it veer about a bit.

My tuppenceworth.
Lovely looking boat by the way.

All the best,
Ian


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:19 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
I use talcum powder in my boats. Just apply a little every year or two to the hypalon or PVC; it makes the surface pretty slick. On my T9 the stern comes off pretty easily, the bow always takes a quick tug. Other's have avoided talc because of concerns that it may create spots on the cotton decks, I've never seen that happen. I use talc in all my folders and, IIRC, Klepper used to sell a powder for this exact purpose.

Some people put a garbage bag over the frame before inserting it into the skin. I guess that works, but somehow this bugs me, the thought of putting the beautiful frame in a garbage bag (I fully admit that's illogical). The other problem is that I would be concerned that the plastic bag cuts down on the breathability of the canvas deck, something I highly value on this style boat.

Hope this helps.

Barry

_________________
Blackhawk Combi Canoe 15' 8"
CLC Chesapeake 16'
Klepper Aerius 2
Klepper T9 / Heise Skin
Pionier 520-Z / Heise Skin
Pouch E65


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:55 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 105
Location: vienna/austria/europe
when i want to get the skin off i demount all reachable frames, hit with the fist on bow and stern and off is the skin.


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:50 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 105
Location: vienna/austria/europe
some pics from my T9 - the best boat klepper built - but they don't accept it


going down the danube for 900 km - june 2014
[img]http://www.dschin.at/canoe/myT9/donau tid 2014.jpg[/img]
with the original 43 year old skin. the rubber was protected by rubber paint, but the kernel suck up water.


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:44 pm 
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dschin wrote:
going down the danube for 900 km - june 2014
http://www.dschin.at/canoe/myT9/donau%20tid%202014.jpg


Nice pic. How many days did it take you to do the 900Km? I am planning to do something similar sometime in South America.

And by the way, what paddle are you using? I'm still my AEII original Klepper paddles which are quite heavy, so I am open to recommendations!

Cheers,
Mario.

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Klepper AEII (ca. 2007)
Klepper T9 (Heise skin)


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:04 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 105
Location: vienna/austria/europe
it took ~4 weeks.

at the danube-trip i used a cheap plastikpaddle - a wooden as sparepart.

yet i use a parted 800gr greenlander and a single blade bentshaft under specific conditions - eg strong sidewind when the rudder doesn't work or in narrow channels.


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 Post subject: Re: My 'new' old T9
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:29 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 105
Location: vienna/austria/europe
this text and pics got lost.
**************************************************************************
Image
so I ordered a new skin (here in vienna)- pvc - 3.5 kg
Image
Image

the first longer ride(nov 2nd) brought us to lake neusiedel. between the reeds there was no wind, we had to run against the gale force wind (~ 40kmh for 9km distance, along lee wall) with very short, high flatwaterwaves

fishermen's harbour oggau:
Image

between the reeds:
Image
Image
but we did it - the T9 ist really a very safe boat
************************************************************************


hannes(vienna)


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