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 Post subject: Jon Waterman's Klepper
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:45 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
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I have been a Folboter for some time but am new to Klepper. I recently acquired from Jon Waterman the Klepper and Balogh sail rig he used on his arctic voyage. The boat is serviceable as is but could use some TLC. I'm wondering if I should leave it as is, as it would seem to have some value as a museum piece. Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:57 pm 
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Wow, that's pretty special. I read the book a decade ago. Funny that I am now reading "Polar Passage", about the first sail across the NW Passage (on a Hobie 18 by Jeff MacInnes, now out of print but easily available used).

Did Jon settle down and have a family?

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:35 pm 
faltbootemeister

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I do not know Mr. Waterman personally. He advertised on Craigslist. I was looking for a Balogh rig I did not need the boat but it seemed like an opportunity to have a piece of history. I have paddled and sailed it now and it does well at both The boat has a heavy-duty glossy Longhaul hull that could use some sealing and perhaps a patch or two. Chris, would you know the proper adhesive?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:38 pm 
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I tried doing it and didn't do well. Eventually I sent the hull to Long Haul to have it done right. Others may have more valuable advice.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:53 pm 
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Couple of points:
1. Prep work is vital. You need to sand the area to be glued and clean it with Toluene. Toluene is the only solvent which will soften Hypalon. Acetone does not, for example.
2. For patching a longer cut, I recommend applying a patch on both sides. Reduces the shear stress on the glue when the hull material is in tension.

For a glue, probably Clifton Hypalon Adhesive with accelerator is the best. NRS and West Marine carry it.

Chris

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Last edited by ChrisO on Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:34 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
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Thanks, Chris. The method you outlined is what I have done in the past with Folbot hypalon hulls. I was not sure if this Longhaul hull is hypalon. It feels more flexible and is glossier than Folbot hypalon. It feels like natural rubber.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:00 pm 
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Tim,
I think Long Haul always used Hypalon. Natural rubber hasn't been used in decades, even by Klepper. Hypalon can be very shiny, depending on surface finishing. Natural rubber fabric tends to more dull, unless waxed, like in the old silver material used in German folders from the 50's and 60's. A way to identify old rubber hull material is to look at it under magnification: It will show hair line spider cracking, even if it is still soft and flexible and it will smell like old rubber (sulfur). Hypalon does not.
Maybe ask Long Haul directly about your kayak skin?
You mention sealing the skin and a patch or two: Where does it leak (deck or hull seams)? Are the patches needed because there are holes or cuts, or just abrasions? What is the deck material, cotton canvas or Seamark (coated Sunbrella)?
Lastly, is this service to maintain the original appearance as a collectible, or to fix it up for personal use? Some difference in required workmanship...

Chris

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:06 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
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I have been trying to make contact with Mark at Longhaul for several days, but it being the holidays I was unsuccessful. Today I spoke with Stacy, who was able to tell me that the hull was not hypalon but something called CMS? At any rate, she will be sending the proper cement and some patching material.

The hull been patched several times already. More than twenty unpatched small cuts can be found in the hull, perhaps from the boat being dragged over sharp rocks. Some are in the many keel strips and thus not a problem while others are in the primary hull. None appear serious but I would like to seal them just the same. A few abraded spots need sealing. A couple of small abraded spots go beyond fabric. Those I would like to patch. The top of the bow piece is cracking a bit.

The deck is of cotton and is the original from the 1980s sometime Jon tells me. It has two minor frays near the cockpit, and a more serious dollar-sized one caused by the clamp on the cockpit rib. Longhaul installed zippered hatches fore and aft. The rubber zipper waterproofing is rotted in many places. The zippers themselves are fine.

Jon sent everything he had associated with boat The boat came with a Longhaul comfort seat, unattached, and a sailing seat. The foot rudder control and a possibly home-made hand rudder control are there. Jon sent two spray decks and two spray skirts. He sent his much-chipped paddle. He included gobs of extra aluminum clips and miscellaneous other spare small parts, some of which I cannot identify. The Balogh rig includes a 24-square-foot mainsail with one zipper reef, a jib, and acas and amas. The Leeboard is plastic, split along the seam, and in my opinion not worth repairing. The mast is smaller in diameter than the usual Balogh so that it will fit through the standard hole in the Klepper cockpit nose piece.

I'm not sure why Jon decided to sell this boat. It would seem a bit of folding kayak history. I am really torn as to what to do with it. Part of me wants to donate it to a museum, but who would want it? Part of me wants to use it, but if I do I would be more comfortable repairing the hull and deck.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:57 pm 
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We are a very small sample. We "get it", but how many people really do? Where are the other similar boats? I know a couple are in the Klepper museum, but I wouldn't send it over there. What happened to Howard Rice's boat? (He rounded Cape Horn in it, and now writes a column for SCA.) He might be a good one to ask for an opinion...

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:58 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: South Salem, NY
There's a member here, Steve, who is starting his own little folder collection. He's in Colorado his logon here is Kayakolyte. Not sure what his long range plans are for all these boats but I delivered a pretty nice T66 to him this summer. Loved seeing that boat on top of the car driving across country.

You might check with him about the collectibility factor; but if it were me, I'd continue to use it. I had one of Jon Waterman's Ute's from a later trip to the Arctic, people loved hearing that the boat had actually been in Arctic waters.

By the way, I like the idea of the Balogh mast fitting in the Klepper mast hole... that's seems like kind of a nice feature for Balogh to offer.


Loved the javelin look of this T66 while driving it across country - here she is in the Rockies.
Image



d

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:40 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

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Just noticed on the Long Haul Facebook page that the current Balogh mast fits in the Coaming hole on the singles. Perhaps it does this on the schooner rig as well?

d

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:03 am 
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RangerTim wrote:
... Today I spoke with Stacy, who was able to tell me that the hull was not hypalon but something called CMS?


Hypalon is the trade name of DuPont for CSM (Chlorosulfonated polyethylene). DuPont has stopped producing Hypalon a few years ago. CSM is produced, for example, of Pennel & Flipo (brand name "Orca").

http://www.pennel.fr/uk/index.php

R.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:28 pm 
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Tim,
Rainer is entirely correct: Hypalon is a CSM. So anytime you hear that Hypalon is no longer available and you should consider PVC or TPU, you know better. Achilles and Mauritzon are other makers/suppliers of CSM coated fabric.
For patching materials and instructions, NRS is a good source:
http://www.nrs.com/repair/hypalon_repair.asp
http://www.nrs.com/repair/clifton_hypalon_adhesive.asp
even a Youtube video.
If most of the cuts and abrasions are where the stringers and keel press against the skin, you might just want to replace the existing keel strips and add new ones where there are none. Long Haul sells the strips.
A weak spot can also be reinforced from the inside, especially if you want to maintain the original appearance for display.
Donating your Klepper, or anything else for that matter, is tricky. I would only consider it if it will be displayed and maintained. Those things would need to be spelled out in a Deed of Gift. Unless a museum has a need for your item, it is just a liability and quickly forgotten. But, there is nothing wrong with putting out feelers. There might be a local museum somewhere (in the Arctic ?) that would love to have it. It should closely relate to the story the museum wants to convey. Examples are historical state parks (in California for example) which have very specific small museums. Fort Ross SHP springs to mind with their original Bristol Bay kayak/baidarka.

Chris

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Klepper T67
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Kette SE 54
Mariner Coaster
HSF Horst Hartung Slalom 50
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:29 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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I second Chris's well-expressed comments on donating to a museum. I have a story in my life that would support all that he says (when last approached, the (university) museum in question was not able to locate the items that my grandmother loaned to them-- they said it had been a gift, and then did not follow up to further emails).

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:07 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 139
Thanks for the replies everyone. Sorry for falling off the face of the earth. I'm back now. I confess my return is related to the temporary-I-hope demise of Folbot. My partner Ann and I are hoping to revive an online Folbot community as a way to perhaps preserve interest in and knowledge of a folder I love.

I still have the Klepper. I have decided to leave it as-is for now, since the boat does not leak. I think the hull is probably in better shape than I feared. Were I to want it refurbishment I would probably send it to Mark at Longhaul. I have patched Hypalon in the past with some success, but what a pain. Life is too short.

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Folbots: Too many. It's embarrassing.
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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