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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:50 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:12 pm
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Curious to know when Klepper Germany stopped making folding kayaks?

Also, when looking at various second-hand/used Kleppers, is there a way to tell if Klepper Germany produced it, or another manufacturer (I seem to recall mention some are being built in Poland now - and not of the same high-quality the German built vessels were known for)?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:00 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
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Wayland in Poland is now producing kayaks sold as Kleppers, and it has been doing so for the past 2-3 years (I don't know the exact date). According to many comments from buyers, including some on this forum, the fit and finish of the original Wayland kayaks was/is not on par with the Kleppers made in Germany. That said, I have not seen any reports on the build quality of the Wayland-fabricated Kleppers. If Wayland uses the same jigs, patterns, materials, and fabricating methods as were used originally in Germany then there really should be no difference in quality from the German Klepper. But we will have to wait for some actual user reports to be sure.

Best,

g

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:33 am 
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gbellware wrote:
Wayland in Poland is now producing kayaks sold as Kleppers, and it has been doing so for the past 2-3 years (I don't know the exact date). According to many comments from buyers, including some on this forum, the fit and finish of the original Wayland kayaks was/is not on par with the Kleppers made in Germany. That said, I have not seen any reports on the build quality of the Wayland-fabricated Kleppers. If Wayland uses the same jigs, patterns, materials, and fabricating methods as were used originally in Germany then there really should be no difference in quality from the German Klepper. But we will have to wait for some actual user reports to be sure.

Best,

g


Hello G.

Your information is incorrect or my English too bad?
Klepper exists furthermore in Rosenheim / Bavaria / Germany and produces folding boats. These folding kayaks are manufactured in Poland (with a high probability in the factory of Wayland;-)). This means Wayland builds folding kayaks behalf of "Klepper AG"! This does not mean that Wayland builds boats and sold under the label "Klepper". Notice this little difference! The final inspection of the work takes place in Rosenheim, so my information.
Incidentally Wayland builds continue to own folding boats under the name "Wayland". These boats have a Klepper like look (and feel?).

I can't say anything about the quality of today Klepper folding kayaks. The true Klepper boats were built until 1970, with the exception of the T9.
Nowadays Klepper builds only boring, heavy and lame boats (everything Aerius!)

R.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:42 pm 
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RainerM wrote:
The final inspection of the work takes place in Rosenheim, so my information.


I had not heard the latter detail. Thank you, Rainer.

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~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:45 pm 
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RainerM wrote:
The true Klepper boats were built until 1970, with the exception of the T9.
Nowadays Klepper builds only boring, heavy and lame boats (everything Aerius!)

R.


And, of course, the Klepper factory burned to the ground, taking all the plans and templates with it-- was it 1980 or 1990? Did that bring about any significant change?

Pouch boats kept on producing sponson-less boat until just a few years ago (or perhaps they are even still available by special order(?)).

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:18 pm 
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Although Wayland are now making the boats for Klepper i am sure Wayland will have to make the boats to Kleppers specification, so i think the quality will be just as good as if Klepper made them. If this brings Waylands own boats up to Klepper quality, then providing they are cheaper Klepper is in trouble. I didn,t think it was a good idea of Kleppers to get a competitor to make their boats. Although finding someone else might have been difficult.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:39 pm 
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I think it was a good idea that Klepper used his competitor because Wayland thereby has much less own capacities to build their own boat (at this time).
Result: The competition will be "assimilated"

"...Wayland will have to make the boats to Kleppers specification, so i think the quality will be just as good as if Klepper made them..."

I don't think so :( , but I hope...


"And, of course, the Klepper factory burned to the ground..."


... in 1995!


R.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Just to clarify, as third persons do so well... I believe you and Greg said the same thing Rainer. That the Klepper quality from Wayland should be the same since Wayland will be using Klepper jigs and patterns. The fact that Klepper will be doing quality control in Germany is something that I don't think any of us knew about, and should be a huge factor in Kleppers continued quality.

That said, it's obvious that you don't care too much for the Aerius models. I'm guessing this is because of the weight? dimensions?

I'd love to hear some specifics about why you don't like the Aerius Kleppers. I would also love to hear what you consider to be better alternatives for sailing and solo paddling doubles. Puch maybe?

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks,

Dennis

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:43 pm 
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Hi Dennis,
I prefer tubeless folding kayaks!

The Aerius (single as double) is heavy and slow. The Aerius double should be good for sailing, but I'm not a sailor, but rather paddler.
I sold my Aerius single after a one week tour on the river Loire in France 2014. A terrible boat!
2016 I have used a Pionier "U" (produced in 1930) with new hull [cotton and TPU] on the River Loire. A fantastic boat! It runs easily, is easy to speed up, light, safe, simple to fill and comfortable.

I am also a fan of historic folding boats that are fast and light in weight. My favorites are the boats from the manufactures "GESA" and "Fürst" (both were located in Vienna/Austria) and Pionier (Bad Tölz/Germany). I also like the Klepper "Vagabund" Single "Modell 1933", the T6-single (1936-1958) and (with limitations) the T9. Very nice Klepper-doubles are the T6-Sport-double (build 1936-1939), the TS2 (1962-1970), the T7/T8 (1951-1961) and also for a person of the "Blauwal 4" (1964-1970, 1986-1988).
The advantage of the boats with air tubes is the simpler production of the skins.

Pic. 1: Pionier "U" (1930)
Pic. 2: Klepper Vagabund Mod 33. on the River Allier in France 2015

Rainer


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:22 pm 
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I believe the most common recent examples of sponson-less traditional folders would be the Pouch RZ65 and RZ86. Both considerably more sleek than an Aerius and it's ilk.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:01 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
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And both the Nautiriad Narak singles are available without sponsons (5.5m x 0.52 and 4.6m x 0.56). Weight saving is sbout 1 kg if I understand correctly over the 460 with sponsons

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Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:30 pm 
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I tried that Narak at the recent CLC Okoumefest. What a beautiful boat.

CLC has taken over the distributorship for Nautiraid in the US, which should count as a major event in the world of folding kayaks. It was lost in the din of the Folbot collapse, as they happened at about the same time.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:20 am 
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Thank you Rainer, very insightful. I have a T9 which I find myself in a love/hate relationship with... I'm curious what your limitations would be alluding to on this boat?

That's pretty interesting about CLC carrying the Nautiraid line. Just one more reason to get to a wooden boat show this year! I'd love to take a spin in one of those... and hopefully not a roll.

d

Aaaaargh! Mystic CT boat show is this weekend... and only two hours from me, bummer. Tomorrow is Grandma's instead.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:15 am 
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If you want to see one of CLC's demo boats at a show , tell them ahead of time so that they can throw it on the truck.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:43 pm 
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Thanks Chris, I'll do that.

Have you ever built one of their kits?

d

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Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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