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 Post subject: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:18 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Today I had the pleasure of meeting Mark Eckhart Of Long Haul along with Dave Balogh of Balogh Sail Designs and Alan Sidlo of Slidegear. I ordered a Mark 2 Lite stretch (17 ft 5 in) in Seamark blue. Mark is such a easy guy to talk to and easy to work with in buying and customizing a great boat like this one. Mark took plenty of time explaining the workings and features of the MK2. I learned quite a bit from the show. Dave Balogh explained his sails and how they could work perfectly with the MK2. Still not sure what we will do. Either the Kayaksailor or one of the BSD sails. Alan Sidlo told me we could make time to go out sometime this season to give the new boat a spin. I think he lives in the area. I'm looking forward to writing a "First Water" review later this spring.

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Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:23 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: South Salem, NY
Congrats Frank, what does the 'Lite' refer to?

d

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Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:24 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
I hope I'm not speaking out of turn here but Mark told me he was in the final phase of producing the lighter version of the Mark 2. He offered it to me for my consideration. As he told me today, the longrens will be fiberglass instead of ash. Making them stronger and lighter. The gunwales will not have the birch inserts but the stringers will be the same size. The stainless steel fittings can be aluminium if I want (not the hinges on the keel or gunwales they will be SS). The aluminium will be anodized. The hull will be 1000 denier instead of 1100. From what Mark said the weight will be over 10 pounds less. It could be more, I was absorbing a lot today. The 2 sling seats will reduce the weight more. I plan on the Comfort Seats though. It may as well be comfy and stable. I think I want stainless steel also but I have time to decide that. I think I'm going with the Velcro TU spray cover as well for easier in and out. Mark will add 4 2.5 inch keel strips to the hull for protection and a lifeline.

The extra 5 inches for the stretch MK2 will add a bit of weight though so maybe the aluminium after all. It's all so confusing because you know it's final and it just might be my last boat and It's a beauty. I cant wait! Anybody out there know if the added 5 inches will be good for a 6 ft 240 pound guy or will the regular 17 ft length be fine.

In the end I don't know how much it will weigh as configured so if it's not much different, I may stick with the expedition hull instead of the Lite. I'm so glad I meet Mark and saw the kayak today. It was the first folding kayak I have ever seen except a Pacboat high up on a shelf last summer. I just love looking at the wood. BTW, all the longrens will be fiberglass on all LH boats from now on due to a supplier issue. Lighter and stronger is better! Right?

IS Seamark better than cotton? So many questions. Now who has some answers?

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Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:21 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:50 am
Posts: 65
Location: South Florida
First of all congratulations on your new boat decision! I am sure you are going to love it. I would like to draw your attention to a thread in this section that deals specifically with deck material that should help you. I would like to add to my previous comments as follows: I have experienced some wear on the rear deck right behind the boomerang on my Mk1. This is an abrasion that was caused by using my paddle as an outrigger for entry/exit from the boat. Mark was able to repair the damaged area by sewing a small patch of Hypalon over the abraded area, which will serve to protect the deck from further harm. Since this never occurred with my previous Aerius 1 with a cotton deck, it must be concluded that there is a slight difference in abrasion resistance between the Sea Mark and cotton deck materials. Upon Mark's advice I recently bought two different kinds of 303, one for the Hypalon hull, and the other for the Sea Mark deck. Although expensive, these highly regarded products work like magic. I mention it here because there is no magic elixir for cotton and over the course of time a properly maintained Sea Mark deck is going to look like new while the cotton will fade. On balance, I definitely think Sea Mark is the better option.


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:30 pm 
faltbootemeister
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 221
First of all, congratulations on your choice for an excellent folding boat! Regardless of your decision regarding the details, I hope you'll enjoy it at least as much as we do.

Based on my current experience with the LHMK II, I can say the following:

The boat is very well built and trustworthy when the you know what hits the fan. If your primary concern is weight, then definitely go with the lightest option available. As far as we are concerned, weight was and still remains the last concern. We take our boat on longer remote trips and we carry a ton of gear. Ten, or fifteen, or even twenty pounds, won't make much of a difference in terms of logistics. However, when encountering waves that crush on top of our deck a few good miles from the shore we treasure every ounce of ash, birch, stainless steel, hypalon and sunbrella (sea mark) because we want the boat to stay together and continue to float.

We have a different approach to folding kayaks where a sturdy boat matters much more than a light one. And I know I can take my boat to places where I can at least hope to come back from. By the way, do you want a boat that gets assembled faster or one where you take the time to make sure that every little component is positioned and installed right?

Will the longer version make a difference? Yes. We got the standard version and many times when I pack the gear on the boat I wish I had those extra inches available.

Sea mark (sunbrella) vs. cotton? I like my sea mark. Synthetics perform better than wet cotton for me. I believe it dries faster too. I am not very keen on cotton anything, wet cotton is always a major problem in terms of equipment, but that is my trail acquired bias against anything cotton.

Obviously, these are just my subjective opinions valued at less than $ 0.02. You'll have to make the decision and buy your boat...:)

Enjoy. It can't go wrong, either way.

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Seasick & Grumpy enjoying a Long Haul Mark II Commando with BSD 36' HP Sport sail

http://vimeo.com/channels/travelotherapy


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:05 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Andreas I, like yourself, am somewhat less concerned about weight as I am about performance and durability. I do feel this will be my last boat. As I told Mark at LH, I want to get it right right out of the box. My first question when Mark told me I could get the lighter hull was how would that compromise durability? Mark did convince me to go with Seamark. You just confirmed that. Thanks. The only thing I wonder about is, would I rather have the large 8-10 inch keel strip and 2 2.5 inch under the longrens. Or 4 2.5 inch keel strips. He said folding is easier with smaller keel strips but I would think there would be less protection.

We will have a kayak cart so the extra few pounds will not be that big of a deal. How does 10 pounds in the water change performance, speed etc? I doubt we will ever get to go on the kind of trips you and Doi go on :( but we do go out often. I am slowly working in the idea of camping out of the Kayak but I suspect my wife's idea of camping out of a kayak is at a hotel along the way.

How tall are you? I am 6 ft tall. Do you feel in your 17 ft boat you have more than enough room for your legs on the rudder pedals so that you knees are bent a little but not above the coaming. The extra 5 inches for me would just be for comfort. Is it overkill for a 6 ft tall guy?

The other thing I was not sure of is aluminum gunwale/rib fittings rather than stainless fittings. One of the things I love about the frame is all the wood Ash and Birch. With the Lite the Birch will not be there. Many questions I know! Someday I will have answers for others so for now thanks for your help.

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Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:11 am 
faltbootemeister
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 221
No worries, you can ask as many questions as you want. I just wish I could help with accurate and pertinent answers. Please, keep in mind that I can only offer my somewhat biased opinions based on my direct experience with the boat.

I like the wider keel strip because I am always worried about sharp objects, oyster bars, logs, tree stumps... but I can see how a wider keelstrip is a bit harder to fold and pack than a narrower one. Is the difference significant? I don't know because I never had to fold and pack a boat with a narrower keelstrip. Once again, I don't mind working harder with wider keelstrips or overall weight if I feel more secure. But you must decide based on your type of trips.

I am 5'8" and I feel comfortable in the standard length. I wish I had the longer version only because I can always use an extra inch, or two, of storage space. At your height, I don't think you'll have trouble in the standard length, but I also believe that you'll feel more comfortable in the extended version. I would defer to Mark, or taller paddlers.

SeaMark (Sunbrella) seems like a better choice, I never regretted my choice for SeaMark.

I trust the stainless steel better than aluminum and I am ready to pay the price in weight.

I hope that my opinions do not add any confusion and help at least a bit. I must say that when I ordered my boat I just decided for what I thought that day to be the best option...:) no prior experience with any folding boat, or much paddling. Except the length, I don't regret my decision and I also consider my boat to be the first and the last...

good luck and don't let too many doubts cast a shadow over the joy!

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Seasick & Grumpy enjoying a Long Haul Mark II Commando with BSD 36' HP Sport sail

http://vimeo.com/channels/travelotherapy


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:48 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Thanks! You have been a real help and focused me on what is important rather than a few pounds.

_________________
Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:37 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:36 pm
Posts: 6
FrankP wrote:
Thanks! You have been a real help and focused me on what is important rather than a few pounds.


Frank, I agree with everything Andreas said. All I can add is this: I have the stretch version and I am 6'2" and 230 pounds - very close to your size/weight. I enjoy that my legs are fully extended to the rudder pedals in the tandem configuration. At 6'0" you may or may not require the extra length (I think you could go either way) but if you load the boat for travel, you will never regret the additional capacity. The weight differential was not enough to influence our decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:38 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Jeff, thanks :) . Is your stretch MK2 the lite version or the regular hull & frame? I do like a slight bend in my knees while bracing on the rib. Is there enough adjustment in the Comfort Seats to move close enough for that bend in the knees and at the same time have plenty of room in the Velcro TU spraycover?

I am toward the stretch (17 ft 5 in), and maybe the "lite" hull and regular frame w/stainless rib fasteners & w/4 keelstrips & Comfort Seats. In Seamark blue w/yellow Velcro TU spraycover. Mark thinks this will save almost 10 pounds. It would be lighter if I went the full "Lite" package but I like all the wood and as Mark said stainless rib fasteners are bomb proof. I doubt the anodized aluminum fittings would ever be an issue but I can deal with the extra 4 pounds or so.

How do you like your kayak? What do you think about my configuration above, since you are familiar with the Kayak. Did you use it a lot last season?

Did you buy the Solo rib #4 & #3 and rudder extentions? What was the cost if you did?

_________________
Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:29 am 
paddler

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:36 pm
Posts: 6
FrankP wrote:
Jeff, thanks :) . Is your stretch MK2 the lite version or the regular hull & frame? I do like a slight bend in my knees while bracing on the rib. Is there enough adjustment in the Comfort Seats to move close enough for that bend in the knees and at the same time have plenty of room in the Velcro TU spraycover?

I am toward the stretch (17 ft 5 in), and maybe the "lite" hull and regular frame w/stainless rib fasteners & w/4 keelstrips & Comfort Seats. In Seamark blue w/yellow Velcro TU spraycover. Mark thinks this will save almost 10 pounds. It would be lighter if I went the full "Lite" package but I like all the wood and as Mark said stainless rib fasteners are bomb proof. I doubt the anodized aluminum fittings would ever be an issue but I can deal with the extra 4 pounds or so.

How do you like your kayak? What do you think about my configuration above, since you are familiar with the Kayak. Did you use it a lot last season?

Did you buy the Solo rib #4 & #3 and rudder extentions? What was the cost if you did?


I got the regular version but it's a hybrid of sorts. The longerens that I got are the the fiberglass black version you were talking to Mark about. I knew nothing about the lite version when I ordered and the fiberglass longeren mod was a pleasant surprise. Everything about the boat I have is slanted towards the heavy duty side, including the full keelstrips.

The config as listed on the website is: "PKG. INCLUDES: KAYAK, VELCRO TUCKUNDER SPRAYCOVER, RUDDER ASSEMBLY, SLING SEAT AND CLASSIC PACKING BAGS WITH LONGREN PACKING SLEEVE AND SOLO RIBS # 3 AND # 4, SOLO RUDDER CABLE EXTENSIONS, KEEL PACKING SLEEVE AND FOOT BRACE. HULL INCLUDES: LIFELINE, 4 PADDLE TIE-DOWNS, COMPLETE SET OF KEELSTRIPS, 2-OVAL DECK HATCH (ONE PER END) AND QUATTRO AIR-SPONSONS"

I also got the comfort seats and the BSD sail package w/ 38' Batwing. If I have any regret, it's that I did not get the zippered deck hatches. My wife and I want to use the boat for trips from 3-7 days fairly frequently (with occasional longer trips) and it seems now that the packing and unpacking would be easier if the decks could be laid open. I have seen Andreas' footage and I really like the way his decks open. Not a huge deal though. I can use the hatch access to pull dry bags into position fore and aft without a huge additional effort.

Without looking at the invoice (I'm in Mexico now and can't look), I couldn't tell you what the line item cost was for the solo rib option. There is a lot of adjustment in the seat position so you could easily accommodate the leg orientation you desire. So far, we have had very little time on the water. The boat arrived in late September, just before an extended business trip to Europe and by the time we got home, the weather was not very cooperative. We have not used the velcro tuckunder spraycover yet but I doubt the seat position you are considering would be a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Chicago Boat Show
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:53 pm 
faltbootemeister
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 221
Jeffwalt wrote:
FrankP wrote:
Jeff, thanks :) . Is your stretch MK2 the lite version or the regular hull & frame? I do like a slight bend in my knees while bracing on the rib. Is there enough adjustment in the Comfort Seats to move close enough for that bend in the knees and at the same time have plenty of room in the Velcro TU spraycover?

I am toward the stretch (17 ft 5 in), and maybe the "lite" hull and regular frame w/stainless rib fasteners & w/4 keelstrips & Comfort Seats. In Seamark blue w/yellow Velcro TU spraycover. Mark thinks this will save almost 10 pounds. It would be lighter if I went the full "Lite" package but I like all the wood and as Mark said stainless rib fasteners are bomb proof. I doubt the anodized aluminum fittings would ever be an issue but I can deal with the extra 4 pounds or so.

How do you like your kayak? What do you think about my configuration above, since you are familiar with the Kayak. Did you use it a lot last season?

Did you buy the Solo rib #4 & #3 and rudder extentions? What was the cost if you did?


I got the regular version but it's a hybrid of sorts. The longerens that I got are the the fiberglass black version you were talking to Mark about. I knew nothing about the lite version when I ordered and the fiberglass longeren mod was a pleasant surprise. Everything about the boat I have is slanted towards the heavy duty side, including the full keelstrips.

The config as listed on the website is: "PKG. INCLUDES: KAYAK, VELCRO TUCKUNDER SPRAYCOVER, RUDDER ASSEMBLY, SLING SEAT AND CLASSIC PACKING BAGS WITH LONGREN PACKING SLEEVE AND SOLO RIBS # 3 AND # 4, SOLO RUDDER CABLE EXTENSIONS, KEEL PACKING SLEEVE AND FOOT BRACE. HULL INCLUDES: LIFELINE, 4 PADDLE TIE-DOWNS, COMPLETE SET OF KEELSTRIPS, 2-OVAL DECK HATCH (ONE PER END) AND QUATTRO AIR-SPONSONS"

I also got the comfort seats and the BSD sail package w/ 38' Batwing. If I have any regret, it's that I did not get the zippered deck hatches. My wife and I want to use the boat for trips from 3-7 days fairly frequently (with occasional longer trips) and it seems now that the packing and unpacking would be easier if the decks could be laid open. I have seen Andreas' footage and I really like the way his decks open. Not a huge deal though. I can use the hatch access to pull dry bags into position fore and aft without a huge additional effort.

Without looking at the invoice (I'm in Mexico now and can't look), I couldn't tell you what the line item cost was for the solo rib option. There is a lot of adjustment in the seat position so you could easily accommodate the leg orientation you desire. So far, we have had very little time on the water. The boat arrived in late September, just before an extended business trip to Europe and by the time we got home, the weather was not very cooperative. We have not used the velcro tuckunder spraycover yet but I doubt the seat position you are considering would be a problem.


Hey Jeff,

Don't feel too sorry, like everything else in life, each option is a compromise that implies trade offs. The zippered decks are great, indeed, BUT one must be very fast when loading in surf because otherwise you may start your trip with a lot of water... :) Plus you can't fully inflate the sponsons until you zipped the decks, otherwise you put too much pressure on the zippers. Once you get used to the routine, it's OK, but don't feel sorry for the hatches. There are advantages too...

cheers,

dn

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Seasick & Grumpy enjoying a Long Haul Mark II Commando with BSD 36' HP Sport sail

http://vimeo.com/channels/travelotherapy


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