Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:04 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:14 pm 
faltbootemeister
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
Well, my body sweats all over when I get too hot. Air moving over my upper body means more evaporation compared to stagnant air under a deck. Having deck material that breathes helps some - as opposed to being stuck in something that is more like a plastic bag (I guess that is why gortex and it's allies have their fans). I keep my stuff in dry bags so it doesn't matter if the bag comes in contact with a damp deck. Even with the rubber (solo) spray skirt installed on my AE2 I've been comfortable.

I suppose you have some points regarding insulation and interior volume diffs between hardshells and folders, but my chessie 16 is the only boat I own that has a "non-breathing deck". I do know that my lower body can be fairly drenched when I get out of the chessie if I'm using a spray skirt on the boat.

I guess this discussion illustrates why canvas hasn't disappeared from the market and is my preference.

All that said, if cost were no object, the synthetic decks wouldn't keep me from getting a Feathercraft!

_________________
Blackhawk Combi Canoe 15' 8"
CLC Chesapeake 16'
Klepper Aerius 2
Klepper T9 / Heise Skin
Pionier 520-Z / Heise Skin
Pouch E65


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:43 pm 
forum fanatic
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:37 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Greece
well...
My two cents

i think you can always dress better if you have to deal with cold...
But
There is a limit to undressing when you have to fight scorching sun...

I vote for canvas..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:04 pm 
Quote:
I guess this discussion illustrates why canvas hasn't disappeared from the market and is my preference.

Canvas hasn't disappeared where it has been used from the very beginning - on wooden frames with large cockpit. Why - I don't know. Right now, the only canvas item that I have is my bucket hat, works well in wide range of conditions, but I do wear on me in close contact with my skin, while boat is usually worn more loosely :-)

Quote:
I keep my stuff in dry bags so it doesn't matter if the bag comes in contact with a damp deck

I'm using drybags for most items, but normally don't bag my tent (very few people do), sleeping foam pad or Thermarest, and it routinely got wet when in contact with canvas deck, simply due to rough waters wetting the deck (no rain). Besides, when I take all my bags into the tent at night, I don't need any wetness on them, even on the outside.

Quote:
i think you can always dress better if you have to deal with cold...
But
There is a limit to undressing when you have to fight scorching sun...

There is no scorching sun under deck, and your legs in Klepper-type boats are not even under deck - they are under sprayskirt, which is non-breathable.

Undressing down to skin in scorching sun is not efficient. Some light loose cloth works better (synthetic usually works better on water than cotton, but in this case - for reasons different from those discussed with decks).


Last edited by Alm on Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:16 pm 
Thanks for the information. Our plans are for one to three week camping/photo trips in the northwest during the spring, summer and fall and wintering in Maui. I am leaning towards the synthetic now from the info that has been provided. Wet cargo and heavier when wet is a factor. We will be using dry bags to store our cargo, so the wet should stay to a minimum. Don't know how much heavier the kayak gets when wet? Any comments? My preference is cloth, but synthetic might be more practical.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:29 pm 
I guess completely wet deck of a single kayak like Mk1 or AE1 SL can't absorb more than a few liters, i.e. 4-6 pounds of water. But may be I'm wrong and it can absorb more. There are other things (in addition to canvas deck) that absorb or collect water in this type of boat - frame, for example. Also, - direct water, accumulated under the floor boards. In rain or heavy seas some water will get in, because of spraydeck imperfections, leaks at the hatches or at the rear cockpit "boomerang", and you will always carry some water into the boat on your feet, when getting in.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:10 am 
forum fanatic
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:37 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Greece
:oops: wrong key press...


Last edited by vangelis on Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:11 am 
forum fanatic
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:37 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Greece
Alm wrote:
There is no scorching sun under deck, and your legs in Klepper-type boats are not even under deck - they are under sprayskirt, which is non-breathable.

Undressing down to skin in scorching sun is not efficient. Some light loose cloth works better (synthetic usually works better on water than cotton, but in this case - for reasons different from those discussed with decks).


Well,
I am not experienced with plastic folding boat decks ( just plastic boats) .

What I feel in my Klepper, during Greek summer, is that even though your (usually bare) legs are under the non breathing sprayskirt, the air circulation in the boat is such that you do not get the humid hot feeling you get in a plastic boat.

I do not know the feeling in a plastic deck folding boat, but I think the cotton deck is doing a lot to keep the environment under the sprayskirt friendly, when you have to face some hours under the Greek summer sun, and the weather conditions call for the use of a sprayskirt.

During summer months in Greece, in most paddling situations, up to say 4Bf winds, you can go with the sprayskirt open, since these boats have a high coaming and can negotiate substantial waves without getting water inside.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:36 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1694
Location: Southeast Michigan
You do get a fair amount of evaporative cooking in canvas decked boats.

_________________
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:17 pm 
faltbootemeister
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
Hi Mike - I'm guessing you meant to type "evaporative cooling", right? :wink:

_________________
Blackhawk Combi Canoe 15' 8"
CLC Chesapeake 16'
Klepper Aerius 2
Klepper T9 / Heise Skin
Pionier 520-Z / Heise Skin
Pouch E65


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:32 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:50 am
Posts: 65
Location: South Florida
Even though this is an old discussion, it seems worthy of additional comment. Hope it helps some future decision maker. I owned a Klepper AE1 for 10 years and replaced it last year with a Mk1. The AE1 had a canvas deck and the Mk1 has the synthetic Seamark deck. I live in South Florida and we do get a bit of heat and humidity. In calm waters most of us paddle with the cockpit open (i.e. no spray skirt) and in that configuration I can detect no difference in comfort. On a few day trips using the spray skirt, I did not detect any perceptible problem with the Seamark, probably similar underneath to my fiberglass kayak. The cotton deck makes for a somewhat wetter boat, not a great big deal to me, but it does require some extra thought in terms of packing things that your don't want to get damp or wet. The cotton deck does absorb water and this makes the boat noticeably heavier at pullout. If you intend to portage, this could be significant because the Seamark does not absorb any water. The cotton deck takes a long time to dry out, at least a day in my garage with a dehumidifier running and the deck unfolded and held open to allow air circulation. The Seamark by contrast dries almost instantly. For me this factor is significant from an ease of use perspective. I have had no issues with either material from abrasion or mildew, and think that if properly cared for and stored there is no significant difference. The cotton did fade after years of use, and the Seamark should not. I have also found that the Seamark is easier to clean with dirt and stains more difficult to remove from the cotton. The cotton does bleed some dye when washing and care must be taken to avoid damage to it especially when heavy dirt or stains are present. By contrast the Seamark is colorfast. All things considered the Seamark is my material of choice. Your results may vary.

Bill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:37 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1694
Location: Southeast Michigan
BarryM wrote:
Hi Mike - I'm guessing you meant to type "evaporative cooling", right? :wink:


Yes, he said, with an embarrassed smile ;-) Although I wonder if I back have to retract that claim. I've always read that a cotton deck provides evaporative cooling, but I can't say that my cotton decked boats really provide all that much cooling, once you add a waterproof deck.

_________________
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:14 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Last year we paddled an Advanced Elements Convertible with a synthetic deck and full spray cover. On the hottest days I never felt that hot inside. The decision to buy a LHMK2 with a Seamark deck didnt seem too difficult. I hope I was right.

_________________
Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:11 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 602
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Don't know if this helps, but my Narak with a synthetic (white) deck and black pvc hull is fine in the Naples heat - up to high 30's in celsius. I think the deck colour is really important for hot climates.
I do however remove the seasock in high summer, otherwise it gets (very) uncomfortably hot
The seasock is fantastic in winter and means I don't need wet suit bottoms to keep warm, unlike my hardshell friends

_________________
Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:55 pm 
faltbootemeister
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 221
We paddled/sailed our MK II in August at 45 degrees North. 80-90 degrees F temperature. Seamark all black, spray cover spray skirts pfd and quite comfortable..:)

_________________
Seasick & Grumpy enjoying a Long Haul Mark II Commando with BSD 36' HP Sport sail

http://vimeo.com/channels/travelotherapy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Deck material
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:30 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: South Salem, NY
My Ute has the Seamark covering as well and I've spent some very hot days on the water here in NY, open cockpit, no problem.

As a side note I was reading about canvas colors a while back and learned that darker colors a enjoy a longer lifespan for the material. Apparently it takes Mr. Sun longer to penetrate those dark colors and eat the threads. You should get many many good years out of your boat DoiNomazi.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group