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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:49 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Just got my "Large" Feathercraft spray skirt and it too fits the Narak :-)
A bit tight to get on fore and aft but no great sweat, easy to get over the side edges.

Unlike the standard spraydeck, the neoprene deck part is not drum tight laterally (slightly floppy), which will mean more room for a knees up position and hopefully less chance of it coming loose at the sides, a problem with the standard spraydeck, which barely goes over the sides of the coaming.

The thicker elasticated Feathercraft chord, which fits tightly around the coaming, also fills its spraydeck sleeve, unlike the thinner Narak chord, so hopefully it'll also be easier to fit at sea. I'll report back again after sea trials tomorrow with the Feathercraft seasock also fitted

Previously, I fitted longer coaming locating bolts to the Narak, held in place by locknuts on the very ends of the threads. This has meant I've been able to lift the coaming up clear of the deck more to enable me to slip the edge of the seasock and the standard sprayskirt under the coaming - this has worked well to provide much better location.

Simon

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Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:49 am 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:41 am
Posts: 108
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
siravingmon wrote:
Just got my "Large" Feathercraft spray skirt and it too fits the Narak :-)
A bit tight to get on fore and aft but no great sweat, easy to get over the side edges.

Unlike the standard spraydeck, the neoprene deck part is not drum tight laterally (slightly floppy), which will mean more room for a knees up position and hopefully less chance of it coming loose at the sides, a problem with the standard spraydeck, which barely goes over the sides of the coaming.

The thicker elasticated Feathercraft chord, which fits tightly around the coaming, also fills its spraydeck sleeve, unlike the thinner Narak chord, so hopefully it'll also be easier to fit at sea. I'll report back again after sea trials tomorrow with the Feathercraft seasock also fitted

Previously, I fitted longer coaming locating bolts to the Narak, held in place by locknuts on the very ends of the threads. This has meant I've been able to lift the coaming up clear of the deck more to enable me to slip the edge of the seasock and the standard sprayskirt under the coaming - this has worked well to provide much better location.

Simon


More good news, thanks for paving the way for other Narak Paddlers! 8)

-I'm interested to see how it looks with the longer coaming bolts, would it be possible for you to show some pictures? Front and end should be easy enough, but what about the side fittings with the screws plus "sliding locks" ? The firm attachment of the coaming is a fairly important part of the kayak's overall strenght and stiffness, I'd say.

Below are 2 pics showing how I've added a stiff nylon rope with small brass screws around the coaming to improve the grip of the sprayskirt. Improved the setup, but not good eneough. Mostly because the original Narak spray skirt is a bit too small/tight, as you say. So I'll get the Feathercraft Large sprayskirt before I plan to go kayaking next time.

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Kayak: Nautiraid Narak '11
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:11 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Hey MoeJoe,
No pics as yet I'm afraid, but the difference in bolt length is very small...
At the front I have fitted an 80 mm bolt but only so that with 15 mm spacers I can get the thigh braces lower, so the effective length is actually 5 mm less than the original. At the back I've fitted a 60 mm bolt, just 10mm longer, and it's probably longer than it needs to be.
I'm sure you'll notice a huge improvement just by replacing the standard wingnuts with locknuts and fitting the locknuts so that they are on the very end of the bolt threads. Try it! :-)
I'm not concerned about longer bolts compromising the structural integrity of the kayak because the bolt loads transmitted from the frame are shear loads (fore and aft), not compression or tension loads. so there's no reduction in stiffness with longer bolts. The side fittings with the sliding locks fit just as they usually would, by the way. and any up and down play in the coaming is largely eliminated when tucking the edge of the skirt and sock under the coaming.

Anyway....
I took my Narak out today with the Feathercraft seasock and Feathercraft sprayskirt combination (both large size). They work very well indeed together! The only thing that's not perfect is that the new sprayskirt is a bit wide, so as I mentioned in my previous post, the spraydeck surface isn't drum tight laterally, BUT the spraydeck snaps on much more securely, goes right over the coaming at the side and stays put, even when I lean back. It's also easier to get on and off, despite being a bit shorter than the orginal sprayskirt, becuase it's not trying to jump off all the time while you're fitting it :-) It was a rough day but no water got in the seasock, so I'm very happy with this solution. Got it up to a smidgen under 5 knots too, and I'm just a little guy with a greenland paddle. What a great kayak :-)
Simon

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:48 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Not quite there yet..

Capsized at sea for the first time for real today due to a combinaton of an unexpected short wave, inattention and probably sloppy paddling technique.
It happened very quickly and unexpectedly and I didn't manage to brace in time, and ... the new sprayskirt still came off :-( The sea sock stopped the kayak from flooding, although I couldn't get back into the cockpit to flick the boat up again as the folds of the seasock kept getting in the way and at one stage I even detached one edge of the sea sock trying to get back in - probably just need to practise my re-entry technique more but in the end I gave up and did a paddle float straddle entry.

Your idea of a rope attached to the coaming sounds like it would help, MoeJoe, although the Feathercraft seaskirt really is a tight fit, at least fore and aft, and you have to really yank it to get it off... I'm tempted to screw on a wall of (flexible) 3mm marine ply around the vertical face the coaming near the side screws, with the lip extending say half a centimetre below the edge of the coaming. Will have to track down some 3 mm ply first - might try a model airplane/boat shop

Simon

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:32 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Michigan
Check your local lumberyard for birch or mahogany door skins. They run 3-4mm and come in 2 or 3 ply.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:17 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:44 am
Posts: 553
Location: Colorado
Quote:
Will have to track down some 3 mm ply first - might try a model airplane/boat shop


First off, why is there no lip on the Narak coaming, or am I missing something ?

I'd go a bit thicker on the plywood lip ... at least 5mm (3/16") for stiffness. I normally use 6mm (1/4") exterior grade as it's readily available
at local hardware strores and is actully a bit thinner than it's listed size, Plus, it doesn't cost nearly as much as aircraft grade overpricing at
hobby shops. A coat of epoxy to glue and seal the plywood , and a couple coats of varnish and you're good to go.

Quote:
Below are 2 pics showing how I've added a stiff nylon rope with small brass screws


On a rope coaming lip, it's best to epoxy it on, and then brush on a couple coats of epoxy to seal and harden the surface. This way, only a
couple of screws, if any, are needed in addition to the epoxy. I've made a couple of these with no screws, only epoxy.

If your skirt still doesn't fit correctly, you can order a custom sized sprayskirt from Snapdragon or Seal, and likely others. They require a
tracing of the coaming outline, and the additional cost is about $10.00US more vs what they normally charge for standard sizes.

Regards, Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:01 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
"Why is there no lip on the Narak coaming?" Good question, it could really do with one!
Nautiraid would probably say it's because the coaming has a vertical groove in the centre of the top surface running right around the rim of the coaming, into which the cockpit lip of the kayak fabric is inserted (from the inside of the coaming), and this means a flat surface (coaming lip) can't easily be glued around the top of the coaming. Don't have any photos to clarify this as yet I'm afraid, but you can just see the groove in the 2nd of Moejoe's photo's in his message above.

All this means that there's only about 6 to 8 mm of purchase width on the the top surface of the coaming, not really enough to glue a very thin ring of the right shape of 1/4" ply so that it sits flat on top of the Narak coaming outside the cockpit fabric groove. At least I don't think so. So either I need to go for Moejoes rope solution with your Epoxy suggestions, Tom, or a vertical face of 1/4" ply sticking proud of the underside of the coaming on the sides - not yet sure if there's room for this though, I'll have a look this weekend.

I'm happy with the fit of the Feathercraft skirt, so I'm not sure I need a custom one. The fact that the deck surface of the skirt is slightly loose side to side means it's easier for me to paddle with my knees up ouside the thigh braces. The elastic chord is a tight fit around the coaming, so as far as I can tell just that there's no true lip, especially when compared to hardshell kayaks :-(

Simon

PS The cockpit is very long, over 90 cm, could this be part of the reason why the sides of a seaskirt detach so easily?

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Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:38 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:44 am
Posts: 553
Location: Colorado
Quote:
Nautiraid would probably say it's because the coaming has a vertical groove in the centre of the top surface running right around the rim of the coaming, into which the cockpit lip of the kayak fabric is inserted (from the inside of the coaming), and this means a flat surface (coaming lip) can't easily be glued around the top of the coaming.


My Feathercraft's had a similar groove on the coaming for attaching the skin from the inside as I recall, but they also had a coaming lip.
In your case, I reckon the rope coaming should do the trick.

Here's link's to making a polyester rope lip coaming using a quilting hoop as the coaming and also a plywood coaming lip.

http://yostwerks.com/HoopCoaming1.html - Polyester rope lip

http://yostwerks.com/SBCoamingA.html - 1/4" plywood coaming lip

Later,

Tom


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:52 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
I used Tom's link as a guide to making a rope coaming lip for my Narak, with two coats of epoxy (thanks Tom!)
Attachment:
IMG_3080.JPG

I didn't use screws or tacking epoxy to locate the rope on the coaming, but rather 12 of the smallest plastic tie wraps I could find, which I attached as I went along just after I epoxy brushed each section. I then removed these once the first coat of epoxy had gone off but before it had fully hardened. I had a slight gap where the rope ends met which I filled with an epoxy/sawdust mix
Attachment:
IMG_3081.JPG

I used 14 mm nylon rope as it's what I had, with 16 mm bulges in it. I'd recommend using 14 mm rope without the bulges or a 12 mm rope as the clearance between the rope lip and the top of the Narak is marginal by the front and back bolts. I may still sand the rope flat a bit at the front and back then re-epoxy it, but the good news is that the feathercraft seasock and sprayskirt still fit, and the sprayskirt is better located and so MUCH easier to get on.
I haven't capsized again yet so it's too early to tell if the sprayskirt will stay put when I do, but it's definitely a better solution :-)

Simon


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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:08 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:41 am
Posts: 108
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Nice work!

Getting all of those little screws in place for my spray deck took a couple of hours so you probably saved a lot of time.

I've bought the FC Large spray skirt myself now. Haven't paddled with it yet, but it looks like it fits and stick better then the original one when I try on dry land..

The ice is melting away quickly now in the Stockholm archipelago, will probably start the season in about 2 weeks, looking forward to that..

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Kayak: Nautiraid Narak '11
Kayak sail rig: Kuvia Kayaksailor 1.6 '10
Sailboat: StorTriss MKII, 17.5 Feet, '75
Blog: jarladventures.blogspot.com


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:31 am 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:41 am
Posts: 108
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Feathercraft Large spray skirt works really great on my Narak with home-made rope coaming. Was out last weekend on a solo paddle Saturday-Sunday and it was both easier to fasten the spray skirt, and it stayed put all the time, even when pushing upwards a bit with my knees while adjusting rudder stick etc. And still comes of easy enough. Didn't test the water proofness, but should be good enough.

A picture from a pretty camp site.. Southern archipelago, Kittelö..

Image

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Kayak: Nautiraid Narak '11
Kayak sail rig: Kuvia Kayaksailor 1.6 '10
Sailboat: StorTriss MKII, 17.5 Feet, '75
Blog: jarladventures.blogspot.com


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:04 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 607
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Glad the coaming mod works for you too. In the end I sanded the rope flat a bit at the front and back then re-epoxied it as the sea sock was catching a bit on my rope caoming, but now it works fine. The feathercraft seasock does let some water in at the rear, but it's not a problem.
Simon

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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