Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

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ParaBog

Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by ParaBog »

I bought an old (maybe 1950's or 1960's) Pioneer single. It is 4.5 meters long, so I'm assuming it is a 450, but I don't know if it is an S or WA model.

It seems to be missing the 4th Frame, and it would be a "C" shaped frame, since it would be in the middle of the cockpit. I'm assuming that it also holds up the cockpit coming, as there is a pair of holes there.

Can anyone send me an outline or a template for that frame, and a photo or two, so that I can see what fittings there are to connect to the rest of the frame.

Thanks!
Pioneer 450....x
Klepper Aerius II, exp. w/sails
Folbot 13
Pacboat Puffin
Lotsa hardshells too!
Attachments
Looking from the front
Looking from the front
Photo-6-entire-cockpit (Small).jpg (52.94 KiB) Viewed 331 times

RainerM
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by RainerM »


ParaBog

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by ParaBog »

Thanks, those sites are a great help.
I'm noticing a difference in my frame from the ones in the pictures, in how frames 3 and 5 are connected to the deck beams. The website shows a bolt and wing-nut connection, while mine has a wire spring. See attached photo.

Does that help in figuring out how old my Pioneer is?

Thanks.
Attachments
Note spring wire holding frame 5 in place at the deck beam.
Note spring wire holding frame 5 in place at the deck beam.
Photo-7-Rear deck stringer-note-wire.jpg (64.21 KiB) Viewed 327 times

ParaBog

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by ParaBog »

Can someone please measure their Pioneer 450Wa (yes, it is a Wa) frame, and tell me the dimensions "A" through "E" from the attached picture?

Thanks!

Pioneer 450Wa
Klepper Aerius II, exp. w/sails
Folbot 13
Pacboat Puffin
Lotsa hardshells too!
Attachments
Sketch for dimensions, Frame 4, Pioneer 450Wa.
Sketch for dimensions, Frame 4, Pioneer 450Wa.

RainerM
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Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by RainerM »

No problem, give me a couple of days, so that I can seek out my 450Wa...

...please notice: the name of the factory was "Pionier" not "Pioneer"

R.

ParaBog

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by ParaBog »

Fantastic!
I'll remember to spell Pionier correctly!
Thanks!

RainerM
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Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by RainerM »

Here are the dimensions "A" through "F" in metric units...
And please note: 1/4" wing-nut is original!
[BSW (British Standard Whitworth)]

R.
Attachments
Pionier-450Wa-Frame-4.jpg

ParaBog

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by ParaBog »

Super!
Thanks so much for the quick response.
Yes, I noted the 1/4-20 and was surprised that Pionier didn't use metric bolts. 1/4-20 is certainly the most common bolt size out there, with camera sockets, etc., but I don't know how common BSW was in other uses, like boats.
Thanks again!!!

RainerM
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Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Need a template or outline of a frame for a Pioneer 450

Post by RainerM »

Pionier used first (1925- ~1956) 3/16 wing-nuts and bolts.

The manufacturers "Fürst", "Gesa" and "Standard-Sportwerkstätten, Leo Kitzmüller" (all Vienna/Austria) also use 3/16 bolt and wing nuts.
Other manufactures (in the prewar time), I don't know...

R.

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